To prepare for the interview we started by assigning ourselves with appropriate roles. Christopher, being the point of contact with our mentor would be taking the interview as the interviewer. Barry of course was the interviewee. This left the role of observer, because we were expecting a lot of content we figured it could be useful to have two observers to transcribe what was discussed during the interview. We assigned this role to Paul and Myself. We also booked a room
We did discuss the use of some tools and potentially AI to transcribe the interview word for word to ensure nothing was missed but we felt we would have to disclose this to Barry and it just ended up feeling as though it added more confusion. With this in mind we proceeded with the interview.
The interview went really well and was so much more insightful than I could have expected it to be. Barry was really keen and super informative when answering our questions. Our interview lasted just over 30 minutes which felt about right.
Afterwards we were sure to send a follow email just thanking Barry for his time and letting him know that we will be in touch soon to touch base once we’ve made a little more progress with the project.
In my role as observer I tried my best to capture the most important. things said within the interview. My notes are very blunt but thats to be expected when quickly noting down what was said. I really enjoyed my role here but I would love to conduct the interview at some point as I feel I should work on these skills.
I wanted to create as detailed a transcript as possible as this interview is so rich in information and will prove to be invaluable for our project. To do this I took my choppy observer notes and asked Claude to create a more cohesive transcript from them. What I got was almost identical to the interview and will serve as a great resource to come back to in the future.
I expanded the transcript to make it more readable not only for myself but also for the other members of the group. Once created I uploaded this straight to our group Slack chat so everyone can refer to it and have it handy. You can see the full transcript below.
<aside> 💬
Tell us a bit about yourself and your role within the prison system?
I work as a Health Engagement Lead, which is essentially about health advocacy, improving the health and wellbeing of those within the prison system. A big part of that involves peer-led education for inmates, and we currently have 25 peer mentors operating across two sites. It can be a challenging environment to work in as good equipment is hard to come by and often gets damaged quickly.
What changes made in the prison system do you think have had the most significant impact?
With ten years of experience in this field, I'm a big believer in the power of structure and cultural change. The focus should be on rehabilitation rather than punishment, but that's not really the reality in Northern Ireland, where recidivism sits at around 50%. There has been some progress in shifting the culture, but it feels like the wider community is moving backwards when it comes to mental health and addiction. One of the most pressing issues is releasing inmates who are still struggling with addiction directly into hostel environments that are themselves rife with addiction, which sets people up to fail before they've even had a chance.
Within the Northern Ireland Prison Service, what kind of release planning and employment preparation is in place, if any?
There's actually quite a lot in place on paper, but the problem is that responsibility is fragmented across different organisations. Various bodies compete to provide services but are often quick to step back once funding dries up. There's some work happening with Belfast Met around employment preparation, which is positive. The other complicating factor is that the majority of people are serving short-term sentences, which makes structured planning much harder. The resources exist; the real issue is a lack of coordination and clear ownership.
How much do prisoners know about the release process? Are there any assumptions that aren't met?
Awareness of the release process varies enormously depending on the individual and their circumstances. Those on shorter sentences tend to be less informed, and we often rely on peer-led officers to help guide people through it. Funding is a persistent constraint, and it's worth noting that we're currently seeing the highest prison population since the Troubles, including the highest female prison population ever recorded. Security also plays a significant role, as prisoners aren't permitted to know the dates of their own appointments because security concerns take precedence. That creates real barriers to preparation.
In your opinion, what group of prisoners is most affected by potential systemic gaps?
The difficult answer is all of them. Literacy issues, foreign nationals, short-term prisoners, the Traveller community; all are particularly vulnerable to falling through the cracks. A useful way to think about prison conditions is to look at the worst-case scenario and multiply it by four. Around 80% of prisoners smoke, 80% of women in prison have experienced domestic abuse, and those who have been victims of crime are more likely to go on to commit crime themselves. It's hard to single out one group when really the common thread is poverty, and in practice, only poor people end up in prison.
Where do you see the biggest gaps in responsibility and case ownership between the justice system, healthcare services, and community support?
The biggest gap is communication and coordination. Historically, the Department of Justice ran healthcare within prisons, which led to doctors effectively functioning as guards, a deeply problematic dynamic. The South Eastern Health and Care Trust stepped in to address that, but the result is now two of everything: two sets of systems, two ethos, two ministers. Nothing is joined up. On top of that, community organisations have to compete with bodies like NIPS for funding, which creates vested interests rather than collaboration. Our own project has won awards precisely because it focuses on measurable outcomes; 7% of the people we work with return to prison. That kind of coordinated, outcome-focused approach with ring-fenced funding is what works.
What kinds of progress do you see people make while in prison, and what helps make that happen?
For many people, prison is genuinely a reset, a chance to stabilise. In some ways it's easier to access services inside than it is in the community, where services are stretched to breaking point. That's part of why people end up in prison in the first place. But the real challenge isn't what happens inside; it's what happens on release. People are let out into an isolated vacuum with little support and quickly fall back into old habits and environments. Some even return to prison because the structure and security of that lifestyle is preferable to what's waiting for them outside. It's a small team trying to address an enormous societal problem.
Are prisoners aware of their financial situation outside of prison, and are there systems in place to help them manage their finances?
There are some systems in place. Prison accounts exist, families can deposit money, and there are nominal payments for those who take on prison jobs. But there are real issues around things like direct debits continuing to run while someone is inside, with no easy way to make the calls needed to cancel them. Time and access are limited, and the financial fallout can compound quickly.
If you could change anything within the prison system, what would it be?
I'd move away from the Anglo-Western model of prison entirely, in favour of something closer to the Scandinavian approach. The current system is too hierarchical, too militaristic, and the power imbalance is stark. People are brought in as adults but treated like children, then released and expected to function as adults again. That cycle breeds dependence rather than independence. If we genuinely want people to reintegrate successfully, we need to be encouraging autonomy while they're inside, otherwise we're setting them up to be dependent in prison and eventually dependent outside it too.
</aside>
The mentor interviewed proved to be an invaluable resource that was rich with opportunity. Barry’s unique perspective certainly reframed how I am looking at these problems but also served to affirm some of our previous suspicions. It was nice to have my anecdotal debt issue affirmed as it is an issue I personally feel is very unjust, which feels quite fitting for this project.
Barry mentioned a great point that completely contrasted what we initially thought. Very early on we felt it was safe to establish that routine is a net positive within the prison system. It builds habits, keeps people busy and makes the time pass quicker. Upon speaking with Barry he actually flipped this on us. He touched on how routines actually work against the incarcerated, he feels that this dependence on the routine and in turn the prison system strips them of their agency and compounds up until release. On release the prisoners who have become so dependant on the system end up seeking dependence elsewhere, be it old peers, the state or even substances. I found this to be a unique issue and one that holds a lot of depth.